Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: I think that it led to the conclusion that we need a car, but it didn't lead to the conclusion that we need to have a loan to get a car.
[00:00:07] Speaker B: Because I had a type of car in my mind and I thought we couldn't afford or if, if, if, if we could even afford. I mean, it would take a while.
[00:00:17] Speaker A: I get it.
[00:00:17] Speaker B: And that.
[00:00:17] Speaker A: That really dragged. I said, like you don't get. I'm not saying. I'm not saying. I'm not. Because I think that no matter how many times I said it, you could only hear, I'm saying, no, you don't need a car.
[00:00:30] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:00:31] Speaker A: And all your arguments were, of course, we are not length arguments, like making proper arguments at that time. And so you're just kind of going on, going on, going on.
[00:00:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:00:40] Speaker A: And we've had a lot of instances like that. Sometimes I like, I have a headache.
I have a headache.
Hello and welcome to my growth club. My name is Emmanuel.
[00:00:52] Speaker B: And my name is Grace.
[00:00:53] Speaker A: We are your partner in growth and effective living. I want to say thank you from the bottom of my heart for tuning in and for always joining us on this particular platform. If you've not subscribed to our channel yet, I want to ask you for this favor. Please hit the subscribe button, turn on your post notification so that you're always going to be alerted whenever we post a video. This is a place that we share anything that will help you grow in life. Gracie and I have been on this person for quite some time. We have discovered things that we've been sharing here, like, like this particular mental image of life that you're seeing on your screen that we had to throw away. It never served as well. It brought us into the state where our heart was at war with others and we are chasing things, you know, fighting and thinking. We are in a competition with people, and we never found satisfaction in that. And we adopted this particular mental image of life, what we call the state of flourishing, the effective living model. Incredible, incredible model that has really served us so well. And that's why we are sharing some of these things with you guys. We have tools that will enable you to live better. You know, in a previous episode, we talked about choices and why everything came down to our choices. Oh, my God. It. It's. It's such a game changer, you know, and. And today we want to follow up on that particular conversation with. With making good argument.
This is crucial. It's important. I mean, we've seen people who have come to us and they are like oh, we always arguing and we always fighting. And I'm like, no, you're confusing two things. Yeah, fighting and arguing are two completely different things. Of course, when you are arguing with each other, you are just on this, you know, unfruitful, you know, drudgery of, of, of things that could easily be settled. So this one says this, this one is saying this, you know, this one is mad, this one is angry, this one is, you know, saying all kinds of things. Yeah, but, but you want to make good arguments as a couple because you cannot make the right choices without having good arguments. I think that good argument is a necessity.
[00:03:04] Speaker B: It's a necessity to make it.
[00:03:06] Speaker A: I'm not saying arguing, I'm not saying fighting.
[00:03:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:03:09] Speaker A: I'm saying making good.
[00:03:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:03:11] Speaker A: Arguments.
[00:03:11] Speaker B: Yeah. And the quality of the argument is what is right. I think it's very important for us to establish right now that for you to say that a relationship, oh my God, this relationship is a good one, doesn't necessarily mean that relationship is devoid of argument.
[00:03:28] Speaker A: Yeah, that's true.
[00:03:29] Speaker B: Right. It's. The argument has to be quality. It's not the argument where it's like you're talk, it's like we at war.
[00:03:36] Speaker A: Screaming on top of our heads.
[00:03:37] Speaker B: You're not hearing each other, like you are hitting the wall against each other. Right.
[00:03:41] Speaker A: And we suffered from that also very early on. And, and I, I think one of the things that I think has helped is through our skill sharing program, our Saturday skill sharing as a couple. I, one day I said, listen, I think we need to learn about this. We need to learn about, and that's the thing about growth. When you want to grow, you want to invest in knowledge, you want to, you want to learn. I had, I had learned because I was a debater and so I knew about argument, but I used to struggle getting you to see things that say the same way. And, and, and, and to kill some of the fallacies in our conversation.
[00:04:16] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:04:17] Speaker A: And I knew that, like, if you think about the Parliament House or you think about, let's say the House, even Congress, okay. You, you don't make good policies without proper argument. You don't make, sometimes they have to engage in moral argument, they have to engage in policy debate because you cannot make good policies, choices if you're, if you're a couple, like, if you bring it back to our homes, like, you can't make good choices without quality argument. An argument simply is a set of, a set of premises leading to a particular conclusion. That's basically what an argument is. I'm not saying arguing, I'm not saying fighting. I'm saying an argument is a set of premises leading to a particular conclusion. And we. We are always like, we've. I've made a lot of argumentative statements even from the time we began.
[00:05:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:11] Speaker A: Because we're making conclusions every single day. Sometimes the premises are obvious. So they are kind of two arguments. You can look at what we call the deductive argument, and you can look at what we call the inductive argument. The deductive argument, like I shared with you, is where the conclusion kind of follows the premise.
[00:05:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:34] Speaker A: You know, so I. I can say that maybe all. All women are beautiful.
My mother is beautiful, or my mom. My mother is a woman, therefore my mom is beautiful. I mean, because I said all women are beautiful. So if my mom is a beautiful, it. It follows that my mom obviously is beautiful.
But then you can have inductive argument, which is where the conclusion is likely, but it's not certain.
[00:06:02] Speaker B: It's not certain. Yeah.
[00:06:03] Speaker A: Okay. So a typical example is, let's say all the dogs that I have seen are white. Okay. No, you can say again, maybe all dogs are white. Okay.
All the dogs that I have seen are white, therefore, all dogs are white.
Right.
It's likely, but it's not certain. It's likely that, in fact, if all the dogs that you have seen are white, then it could be true that all dots are white. But it's not certain. It's not.
[00:06:34] Speaker B: It's not really the entire universe.
[00:06:37] Speaker A: Exactly. And both are argumentative statements. And we. We have them. Let. Let us bring that into our homes. We. We used to have, for instance, there was a time where we had to. Like you said, we. Okay, let's go and take, let's say, a loan to buy a car.
[00:06:53] Speaker B: Yes, I remember that.
[00:06:54] Speaker A: And I'm. I'm thinking, okay, no, no.
[00:06:58] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:06:59] Speaker A: And. And again, because. Because of the way you put a statement.
[00:07:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:03] Speaker A: And I, And I told you when we were doing this lesson, like, then.
[00:07:07] Speaker B: I said back to it, because in that moment, I didn't think. I was like, why would you just say no? So I came to you because, I mean, we had gotten married. I started, you know, Ubering and sometimes joining public transport. It's not like I wasn't doing that before, but I was doing that to work now. And I was like, I think let's go get a loan and buy a car. And we're like, no, again, that's an argument right there. Right there.
[00:07:32] Speaker A: Because again, you've made an argumentative You've given a conclusion. But then if you, if I had said maybe I think we need a car, okay, maybe because of abcd, that's fine. Or even if you had said we should get a loan because of abcd. So I asked, I think the follow up question was that why, why are you saying that? And then now you went ahead to give the point. But I thought all the points you made did not follow the conclusion. Like did not lead to that conclusion. Like you, you have a valid point, but those points don't lead to this conclusion. I think that it led to the conclusion that we need a car, but it didn't lead to the conclusion that we need to have a loan to get a car.
[00:08:16] Speaker B: Because I had it type of guy in my mind and I thought we couldn't afford or if I get it, if, if, if we could even afford, I mean it would take a while.
[00:08:26] Speaker A: I get it. And that that really dragged. I said like you don't get. I'm not saying, I'm not. See, I'm not. Because I think that no matter how many times I said it, you could only hear I'm saying no, you don't need a car.
[00:08:39] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:08:40] Speaker A: And all your arguments were of, of course we are not length arguments like making proper arguments at that time. And so you're just kind of going on, going on, going on. And we've had a answers like that. Sometimes I like I have a headache, I have a headache. And I thought no, we needed to learn, we needed to learn how to. And you can attest how much that has helped.
[00:09:00] Speaker B: It's been a game changer. You know, from just this example, one, one thing that I learned is that attacking the issue, right. Is what is critical and not the person. Because I felt attacked in that moment. So it's like, okay. And most people do that when you feel attacked and it's like, okay, you shut out. Some people don't talk about it. Some people decide that okay, I'm not going to bring it this up. Some people, even if eventually like the choices we are talking about, we talked about the last time people make joints. Okay, I said it right? People point you to. Yeah, because they shout out about it and it's like they are more like waiting to see. Like you feel in code. Right?
[00:09:37] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:09:37] Speaker B: You know, on your own, you're on your own.
[00:09:39] Speaker A: So let's see.
[00:09:40] Speaker B: Yeah. But I, I, I now realize after, you know, I, I learned about proper argument that attacking the issue, right. Let me make a, a right state. It's like one of them is inviting based on your response. If it's just say no or I say oh, I again, I knew that you won't listen to me. It's like that one is inviting us to a box championship.
[00:10:04] Speaker A: You're just setting each other to fight.
[00:10:06] Speaker B: And then the other one is okay, I feel like this is an important discussion and I feel on head.
[00:10:13] Speaker A: Let me talk about the point on the table.
[00:10:15] Speaker B: Let's talk. It's inviting you to a conversation and not into a boxing rink.
[00:10:19] Speaker A: That. That makes sense. And it's. It's a fallacy called ad hominem, which is where we attack people sometimes. Some people say I am the accountant or like saying I am the scientist or. I mean we all do that and we have learned through this.
[00:10:33] Speaker B: Myself and you is like I've sometimes I've reiterated to you that you remember I have a cpa, right.
[00:10:38] Speaker A: You know, I have like when you're losing an argument, you're losing an argument.
[00:10:43] Speaker B: Bringing all my credentials up.
[00:10:45] Speaker A: So what you're doing is what we call the ad hominem. It's a fallacy in. In argument where people attack people.
[00:10:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:51] Speaker A: Some people will say that you are a man. So you think, no, let's talk about. And this is one of the things. And this might be uncomfortable especially for people who are raised in the church or Christians who are listening to us because we've been made to think that, okay, the man is the head. Not really made. I. I agree. I accept that as the Bible has taught us. But then again, because of that we think when men talk, we have to say yes or. And that's the reason why we're seeing an increase like a great number of divorces. It's not because people lack respect. It's just because a foolish decision is A foolish decision is a foolish choice. I'm sorry to use these words, but that's the truth. And you want people. I always say this that you would do better as a couple when you make good argument that lead to rational choices.
[00:11:37] Speaker B: Rational choices.
[00:11:38] Speaker A: We talked about choices in the last episode. Episode where we said you. You want to have at least choices that get you to most expected outcome. It might not be the most desired because you're not going to tell if. If things are going to go this way. But it's expected in terms of. I can anticipate this wrong going and I can also anticipate this is. So when it happens, it's like, okay, we anticipated that and this is how we're going to solve it. But when you don't have rational.
You like conversations and you are not able to argue properly. What happens is you continue to make, and I tell you this, you are going to have that. If you don't want to have argument, stay out of marriage, don't marry.
[00:12:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:20] Speaker A: Don't go into a relationship because you're going to have a lot of them because it all comes to a particular choice we have to make or even the way we have to look at something.
[00:12:29] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:12:29] Speaker A: And you're having people seeing things from different point of views. It will, it will have. I mean, it necessitate that we have, we have very rational argument, like very thoughtful argument. The, the second fallacy that I've also seen aside the ad hominem, like you talked about is, is what we call the strawman. Strawman is simply where it's very interesting where people, they have a way of misrepresenting what you have said.
[00:13:00] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:13:01] Speaker A: You know, so, so again back to our car argument where you said, okay, so, so it doesn't mean we don't have to have a car. I'm like, no, yeah, no, yeah. I'm not saying we don't have to have a car. I'm saying we don't need a loan to get a car.
[00:13:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:18] Speaker A: And, and no matter how many times I said it, what I realized was again, you picked it. And I have also done that to you several times in different, you know, on, in different cases. But what, what I realize is what we do is we misrepresent what the person is saying. So for instance, maybe we have to go on a vacation. Okay. Or let me bring food where I'm guilty.
[00:13:40] Speaker B: I, I know if I, that this particular food example, I recently broke through the straw man fallacy, right? Because I had always thought or had you say that don't cook.
[00:13:56] Speaker A: And I'm like, why will I say don't cook? How will we eat?
[00:14:00] Speaker B: How we eat, right? Because like, I remember one time I, I even told you I was just, you know, a bit angry and I'm like, you're a fan of. Actually I was fed up because I was like, but when I cook, you eat. So why do you keep complaining about cook? But it was just recently, it was like, now, okay, you presented your point. I think you have always been presenting, but I wasn't hearing. I wasn't understanding what you're not, you're.
[00:14:23] Speaker A: Not looking for two, two things are important. You want to look for the conclusion, but mostly you want to look. The most important thing is the premises that are leading to this conclusion.
[00:14:32] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:14:33] Speaker A: Because if you just hear the conclusion don't cook. But the conclusion I was making is have a time.
[00:14:39] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:14:40] Speaker A: That you cook. And all you could hear is, don't cook. Don't cook. Because sincerely, you are not ready to confront the time problem again. It's almost like we are arguing on this. Meanwhile, what we are really doing is kind of having a good argument where you could say, okay, this is the reason why I'm saying that. And I'm giving you the reason why. I'm saying that you can actually attend to other things important. You know, it's weekend again. Like I keep saying that. Make weekend fun.
[00:15:08] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:15:08] Speaker A: You know, and, and restful again. You don't need to spend. You don't need to spend the whole week working and spend the whole weekend in the kitchen.
[00:15:15] Speaker B: You don't have to do that Sunday. So cooking.
[00:15:17] Speaker A: So I, I said, no, you need to be rest. Resting as much as possible. There's a reason why there was Sabbath really. Like you need to rest. I get that. And so the way we. We going to do that is early in the morning. We can cook till this time and you can take it. But it took so many years till.
[00:15:36] Speaker B: We actually taking like six years, I think. Right.
[00:15:39] Speaker A: Till we came to the point where you're like, I. I think I see your point. I'm like, yeah, I came to you.
[00:15:42] Speaker B: I'm like, you are.
[00:15:43] Speaker A: Come on.
[00:15:44] Speaker B: I now see your point. So this, what you've been saying all this. Well, right.
[00:15:47] Speaker A: You know, until. Until you got. You got that. But what was happening was the strawman.
[00:15:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:52] Speaker A: Fallacy. Because what we do is we misrepresent what people are saying. I see this in the media a lot of time where someone says something, they say, this is what the person meant.
[00:16:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:02] Speaker A: And many people are not able to break. I blame the school system because we have not been educated in our thinking to be able to see these things.
[00:16:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:10] Speaker A: To even make proper arguments. And so people are going to marry. Many times when people have come for counseling from us, like I asked them that, do you know how to make proper argument? They have no idea. In fact, almost 90 of the people have asked. Never ever.
[00:16:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:26] Speaker A: They've never been taught. They've never been told how to make. And this is going to be essentially the way they live their life, how they make decisions.
[00:16:33] Speaker B: Unless someone says word alone sounds like fighting, like.
[00:16:37] Speaker A: And that's going to happen. And, and unless someone says that, you know, whatever you do, fine. Until they get into trouble. So you want to make that, so a strawman is simply where you misrepresent the fact. Someone is saying, let's say let's not do ABCD because of this. And you say, oh, so are you saying I shouldn't buy the clothing? I'm not saying you shouldn't buy the clothing. I'm saying probably buy the clothing, you know, in a, like spread it over.
[00:17:03] Speaker B: A period of time. You don't take $20,000 and just shop.
[00:17:07] Speaker A: Exactly. Someone is going to make a decision, maybe on a job, and someone said, so are you saying I shouldn't take the job? No, I'm not saying you shouldn't take the job. I am saying that consider abcd. Have an alternative before you make this decision. This is so common and I'm, I'm sure those of you who are watching or listening really can relate where we, we have all these fallacies in our conversations and it's leading to unnecessary fight because whenever there is a fallacy, it kind of, it chokes reasoning.
[00:17:36] Speaker B: Yeah, that's true.
[00:17:37] Speaker A: And so nobody's able to get across to the other person and you begin to fight another fallacy that I'll talk about. I mean, there are a lot of fallacies, but another fallacy I'll talk about is what I, what I call the false dilemma.
[00:17:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that one. And it comes back to our example, right? It's as though it poses a situation whereby it seems as though there are only two options in a scenario. It's either they're getting a loan to buy the car or we are not getting a car.
[00:18:04] Speaker A: No, there could be a third option.
[00:18:06] Speaker B: We can say there could be a fifth option. Exactly.
[00:18:10] Speaker A: So many of us fall in this, this, I mean, we fall victim to this fallacy. Like we kind of reason the, the same ways. Like whenever there's something the people think, okay, you are saying even with the cooking thing, it's like, oh, so enemies. You, you mean I shouldn't cook? No, I'm not saying you don't have to cook. You know, it's, it's not either or. It's not always either or. You have different options. And, and I've seen a lot of people make these decisions whenever they're making decisions. It's like, if I don't do this, then then I can't do that. I'm like, no, if you don't do this, you can actually do A, B, C, D. You can do three or four other things.
[00:18:52] Speaker B: That's true.
[00:18:53] Speaker A: If you really want. And so if we begin to deal with these fallacies I mean, there are more. There is hasty generalization. There are a lot of fellows. I want to challenge all of you to spend time and learn about them. If you're a couple, learn. Learn about them together.
[00:19:06] Speaker B: All men are che.
[00:19:08] Speaker A: Exactly. All men. That's. That's a hasty generalization. Like, just because, like, one or two people, you know, and so you kind of have all these things in our thinking, and we are true. It's like when I go, the people are like, who are the people? Like two.
He's like, I mean, when I go. And then, you know, my. And the people who say. I'm like, who are the people?
2. Because you kind of generalize things in your mind, and there are a lot of fallacies. But I want to encourage people to really learn about them.
[00:19:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:39] Speaker A: Because if you learn to make better argument, you will learn to improve your conversations and you will learn to improve your marriage. Now let's talk about how people can actually do this.
One of the things that I. I will say is you want to make sure that because an argument is simply the conclusion or the. The premises that are leading to a particular, like the set of premises that are leading. You're not looking at only one premise.
[00:20:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:09] Speaker A: You're looking at the premises. Okay. The premises. And you are making sure that you are assessing those premises whether they are consistent in the first place with a conclusion. You know, people just say, let's say if we buy this. Or let's say, like, if you go to, maybe there's a problem we need to solve. And then someone will say that, oh, I think we need to go to, let's say, go on a vacation. Like, okay, because Amma went for the vacation, and I think she's so happy now. A went to the vacation. I think she's so happy now.
[00:20:48] Speaker B: I think vacation will solve all our problems.
[00:20:50] Speaker A: Exactly. And then sometimes you're like, oh, but then you point the person and say, oh, but Akosia also went for the vacation, but she's miserable. You know, Akosya is really, you know, then we want to excuse those things. And what. What we are trying to do is so we kind of establish a premise or like a set of premises, but those premises are not consistent with a particular conclusion. This could be the God argument. It could be beliefs. It could be. Sometimes when you kind of argue with people, you talk about things with people, what you realize is their premise is not consistent with the conclusion.
[00:21:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:24] Speaker A: Or sometimes the premise itself is not factual.
[00:21:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:28] Speaker A: It's not based on evidence. This is A very common problem all of us face. Sometimes you may not even have the fact in the first place. But at least try, you know, that's why in the general we talk about test the truth. Like at least try to make sure that the premise is. Last time we talked about making choices and we said one of the things that I. That is important to making right choices is sufficient information.
[00:21:52] Speaker B: Information having sufficient information. Exactly.
[00:21:55] Speaker A: And then factoring in the constraints like time constraint, like resource constraint and human behavior. And so we talked about sufficient information in the light of what are the evidence that are. That are back in this particular thing. A lot of premises are not factual.
[00:22:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:13] Speaker A: And when people are confronted with that, they hate it. We all do that. Like if right now I want to have arguments about God with someone, I mean, many people got a guy. You know what? You take whatever you want. Because people want to shun away from going to the place where the premise that is leading to a particular conclusion is based on facts.
[00:22:31] Speaker B: Yeah. I think it's very critical to be able to separate your premises from your conclusion.
[00:22:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:38] Speaker B: I remember most times you ask me, what are the promises that are leading to this conclusion? Right. Because for me, I just say, what? Okay, this is what I think.
[00:22:49] Speaker A: You talk like, you go like.
I'm like, okay.
[00:22:57] Speaker B: And I think one critical thing I want to highlight is that knowing also that in your home, we are married. We are not in a law court. We are not trying to win an argument.
[00:23:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:23:08] Speaker B: But we are just influencing that's really each other's, you know, perspective about something. Presenting facts, presenting something that, you know, ultimately, like we said, will lead us to make certain choices that will affect both of us. Because at the end of the day, if it's about who wins, then that is it. Yeah.
[00:23:25] Speaker A: And I think I was guilty at that time. I think the way I presented the case, it's like you always bring your debate you are trying to win. It's like the debate demons in Mia coming out. And I think you didn't like it because whenever it seems like you're trying to win an argument, then the other person is going to feel less smart. And so you want to make sure that I think I'm improving.
[00:23:46] Speaker B: Oh, you have, you have, you have, you have.
[00:23:48] Speaker A: You know, but I think that's a brilliant point you make.
[00:23:51] Speaker B: Ultimately, it's for the better of the, you know, union with the children. For everything that pertains to us is not necessarily who is right, whose points, you know, presenting all those facts, verifying those facts, making sure that we are clearly communicate something that will lead both of us to a great end.
[00:24:09] Speaker A: And it's good for us to, Good for us to go straight to the point.
[00:24:13] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:24:13] Speaker A: You know, like what you were saying. Many people just kind of say, okay, so. And then they're going to start the story from. And it's like, you're lost. Where are you going? And sometimes I think what, what I, I, again, I'm guilty here is because I don't allow you to end. I'm just asking. Okay, so I want to get a conclusion to the.
[00:24:35] Speaker B: Yeah, it's like.
[00:24:36] Speaker A: And I said, okay, what are the premises?
You are kind of lost in what I'm saying.
[00:24:47] Speaker B: I'm even lost in myself.
[00:24:49] Speaker A: I think women are very interesting people. Like you kind of go like, yeah, you know, I mean, like you, I think you made a very brilliant point there, that this is not law court. You're not trying to win a case. You're just trying to talk and you're trying to argue. And I, and I say this, that I think that many people are going to find this conversation. I'm hoping that they find this conversation helpful. But if you get this right, you're going to change your marriage, your relationships in a completely different way. Because the biggest thing you're going to see is just how people argue.
[00:25:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:18] Speaker A: And when people fight more, they get drained. When they get drained, they are no more interested in a relationship. It's going to be one of the major factors of, of, of like maybe breakups and even divorce. Because we are always arguing. We are not able to present our case in a proper way. We are not able to talk to each other in a civilized way. You don't have to be a lawyer to do this. You don't have to be a debater to do this. Anybody can learn it. You can go on YouTube, learn about how to make better argument. It doesn't mean you're going to argue and be argumentative. Sometimes you don't always have to oppose something. You don't always have to. Sometimes you can also, like, I, I'll just walk you through your gradually to establish your thought. I don't need to say, okay, I get your point. Now this is my point. Like, I don't need to. I can actually lead you on.
[00:26:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:06] Speaker A: To the point where I create a coherence between your premises and your conclusion. Because sometimes you get a point. You, you have a point, except that the premises are not based on fact. And so I have to ask why. Okay, I say, I will. You want to search on this more Exactly. Will you want to find out more? Because I'm not trying to even present my alternative view. I just want to help you and I want to aid you because that also helps with people's self esteem. If people are going to feel like they're always going to lose, it's like you're just going to tell your whole your home into into the law court and it's not really going to help. Anyway, thank you all for sticking around. Thank you for joining us on this particular episode. I hope that you learned something. Let me know in the comment section. Again, if you're not subscribed, please go ahead and subscribe. We are still offering some of our templates for free. Notion template. Go check them out. The links are in the descriptions below. Go check them out. And and again our effective living system, our effective living family system, our finance system. Yeah all of them are available. Nonprofit system. They they just available on our website my growth club.org you want to check them out. We had a wonderful conversation this weekend of our first club meeting on Zoom and it was amazing. I'm hoping that those who join really enjoyed it. You want to join us? Visit our website mygrowthclub.org Click the link, Join the club and sign up and and you're gonna have like minded people converse and discuss some of these topics that are going to be very helpful to your growth and your development. Again, from the bottom of our heart we want to say thank you. We really appreciate you. If you help share this with some people, tell them, tell your friends like hey guys, subscribe to this channel is really going to help you and I think we're not going to disappoint them. So thank you again and do have a wonderful weekend. Bye.
